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Somni-Forum _ Papaver Botany _ Alkaloid Content

Posted by: shaganoz Feb 21 2003, 11:23 PM

I hear that Tazmanians have a high morphine content but also a high thebaine content that will make most people sick if they smoke the latex. Does this also apply to tea? And, in so case, is it thebaine that make people nauseus in general when consuming poppy tea? Or is it something else? What would be a good strain with high morphine content and low thebaine content? I never thought much about thebaine before and what it does, could someone tell me more about this? Thanks

Posted by: breeze Feb 22 2003, 01:28 AM

Howdy,
this doesnt answer your question directly, but:
"Thebaine presents us with an interesting phenomenon. Although by itself it has no narctic properties (if any it is a stimulant) it has served as the basis for hundreds of chemicals known as Bentley Compounds. One of these is ETORPHINE, which is perhaps 1,000 to 3,000 times more powerful than morphine. As a drug, a therapeutic dose of ETORPHINE is measured in micrograms and is by weight the strongest drug in the world, stronger even than LSD."
"Opium for the Masses" Jim Hogshire pg.50

Bentley compounds huh? ill be back

Breeze

Posted by: Pontius Pilate Feb 22 2003, 02:03 AM

I can tell you that I have some and will be taste testing them when I can. I can say that only some varieties of tazmanian have the reverse phisiology of thebaine. The varieties that I HOPE are sent to us for growing here are the high Morphine type. But then again how can the home buyer know before taste testing it at some late point.

as for thebaine I have read possibly accurate that hydrogen peroxide can and will make thw thebane more consumable for humans.

I am waiting for someone to confirm this before I can suggerst it more than a method of protection against obvious suicide.

Posted by: Catch22 Feb 22 2003, 06:01 AM

QUOTE
as for thebaine I have read possibly accurate that hydrogen peroxide can and will make thw thebane more consumable for humans.

I think that the H2O2 is also an ingredient in producing oxycodone from thebaine? Don't take that as a definate answer, but I think I read that on an organic "drug" chemistry site, where some grad students were making it in the campus lab afterhours.

Posted by: Goldie_Loc Feb 22 2003, 02:28 PM

shaganoz,

As far as the Tasmanian strain specifically having a high morphine and thebaine content- those are two different variations on the whole. The 'High Thebaine Strain' is a strain all it's own having been genetically altered to stop alkaloidal production at the stage when thebaine is produced upon maturation (before morphine). The 'regular' Tasmanian strain is like all other poppy strains, being that it contains very small amounts of thebaine.

Unless you specifically had access to the thebaine strain, the amount of thebaine (.4-.8 percent average of total alkaloids) would be far to small to have any negative effect, such as it's convulsant properties in high doses. In normal dosages (be what ever method of use), all one is likely to feel is it stimulant effect. When smoking opium, thebaine is the first to vaporise, thus it being first which the body absorbs, upon which stimulation is first felt. Later comes the relaxed feelings of Morphine and other alkaloids which effect the body instead of the mind more per say.

All the alkaloids within the poppy/opium are very important and work hand in hand in total synergy. Just like Yin and Yang. With one alkaloid having certain negative side effects if used isolated and alone, when used together- specific other alkaloids counteract the priors negative effects, and so on. An example..

Morphine constipates the bowels, codeine and papaverine stimulate the bowels to counteract morphine's constipating effects. Narcotine accelerates the bodies respiration breathing thus counteracting morphine's suppression and inhibitation of breathing. Thebaine stimulates the brain, therfore counteracting morphine's effects of sedation. And so on.. They all are a very complex synergistic body playing upon each other.

So the thebaine very well serves a purpose, it is not what makes one sick when ingesting it (to small an amount as I said..), if anything it can counteract the feeling of ingesting too much morphine. With that, that mostly the reason why one gets sick, ingesting to quickly (or obviously too much!). The body gets saturated with alkaloids too quickly and you get sick. Each alkaloid effects different parts of the body and metabolises at different rates, so it takes time to achieve effect. Go slow. Possible other reasons aswell may be the reason (like moldy pods, etc..).

As far as a strain with a good morphine content and low thebaine- why Tasmanian of course, lol.. Other notables are Turkish Commercial, India/Persian White (or any white/glabrum variety), among others but those being the most common.

Hope that answers your question.

Goldie_Loc

Posted by: shaganoz Feb 22 2003, 09:25 PM

Ah I see, thanks for the good info cleared up some things for me. I've been misinformed that the Tasmanians in any cases have high thebaine contents, but I suppose its the "normal" strain I have myself though. I also got turkish and indian raj's and persian whites among others, can't wait to get them planted Last year I had a couple hundred plants of a european mix so it was several different strains together, now I got more pure strains and seeds seperated by strain.